Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? hmmm Its a measure of arrogance. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. We saw a good deal of quick forgiveness/cheap grace from defenders of TVC. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? How to Resign from a Church That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. )(mark is apparently not impressed with peter baptizing 3,000 followers in one day cause peter isnt able to be made into a complementarian I guess), interestingly mark points out how stephen handled it but not how mark handled slight persecution which was actually not persecution but truth leveled against him) People who are not religious, like me, are generally skeptical of religious institutions and their goals. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. Highlights - Stronger Men's Conference 2023 https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. . Welcome Home to Church Online! so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Or is it just a GW thing? FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. So this is kinda what we do So in Africa we partnered and we have an orphanage there that now has I think it is 32 kids and 140 people in Mars Hill give monthly to help support them. She came to me in sorrow that she walked away from a relationship with Agathos after that Mars Hill warning.. I respectfully dissent, Evangelical NIH director Francis Collins says 'most churches' should be remote until public is vaccinated. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. Gateway is so deceptive in all their practices. I am not the most wonderful guy in the world, i am not a saint, but when i asked Jesus to forgive me and fill me with His Spirit i changed inside. "In other words, you can believe what you want within the confines of the four walls of the church as long as you don't live it outside of the church.". re: Lindells article. it is heartbreaking to have to help them get through the transfer of custody until the one can get through a treatment and be able to be around the child again. I mean this only works in some venues. I know, that sounds horribly arrogant but I lacked it in buckets for years. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. I said some decent things, but one can and probably ought to take that with a grain of salt. Yet its everywhere in the US and Australia. We hunkered down and prepared ourselves for the impact of Mark Driscolls threat. The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! Lydia wrote: Who has wounded you? . He had no idea. What do you think, Albuquerque? How can they do that? Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. The financial aspects. @ numo: They dont (want to) get it. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. Please call upon Jesus today, you will be very glad you did! Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. Who has harmed you? they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. your comments are great. Years ago, he spoke from the pulpit against the expansion of casino gambling in Missouri. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. from dictionary: starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. It came swiftly and with great effect. This was a new song to me. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. Or there are people who were sexually abused by Uncle so and so who have forgiven him, and perhaps the man has done his time, but their forgiveness does not mean that they would ever allow their children in the same room with him. actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? @ sam: New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. . One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. He told me he appreciated my column and my work at the News-Leader. . notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. Yes, thanks for this. One of six. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. Mark' Driscoll's message has been uploaded on the church website, and we have included it here should you choose to watch it. Have you noticed the more scandals from some thugs they actually become more popular? In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed . @ Bob M: In his case, [Pauls] trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. And then they wonder that people not in their bubble have very little understanding for their version of religion and cry persecution. Trump: If you put me back in the White House, 'America will be a free nation once again', The Gospel Coalition takes down 'Sex Won't Save You' article; Rick Warren calls for apology, Wife of pastor killed by reckless driver breaks down in testimony, CPAC: Vivek Ramaswamy warns of 3 secular religions, proposes 'national revival' not separation, From a progressive Christian antagonist to an orthodox Christian advocate, In Haiti, big money for orphanages can endanger children, 7 signs of failed Christian leadership in business, My agonizing question after Nigeria's presidential election, Ukraine war exposes weaknesses in Russia and the West, LA County clears John MacArthurs megachurch in COVID-19 outbreak probe, Calling it persecution by public policy, hundreds of Oregon Christians protest COVID-19 restrictions, 'Churches should suspend services during pandemic.' there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. . We are passionate about . Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. Missouri megachurch under fire over crowded Christmas services | Church When he agreed to accept an $850,000 annual pay package while other staff were being laid off due to declining offerings, was he in a fugue state, incapable of understanding what was going on? arrogant, a lover of money, no., to forgive them prepares you to see jesus. Mark is playing the victim. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. Its meant only to address the deception of certain megas. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. Open Discussion Page. I believe in forgiveness, but cautious about putting such folks back on the platform. The bible sayz dat soon the darkness is coming when no one will be listening. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. There are now more single adults in the U.S.A. than married couples, but churches (even the mega ones) keep going after the married folks. I really appreciate your insights Lydia. This can be anything from praying for people over the phone to working in the Online Campus studio. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. since we are all clergy??? . But I never want to deliberately post any false information so I do appreciate any corrections you can add. People shift roles all the time (Mark has obviously been a persecutor a lot!). Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. i havent seen any video or statement where he has actually apologized for anything except being mean when he should have been nicer in throwing people under the bus, shoulda offered them a pillow maybe so they didnt hit the ground so hard, but totally right in throwing them. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. 15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land. Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. . Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. He was defended and protected by his peers and they even tried to help him plant a church here and give it street cred but his family of churches franchise is over for him and he is lucky if 50 people show (mostly SGM followers and family) up for his church in a room at the Marriot not far from where I live. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. Its much harder to leave that way. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. It is often just a wise thing to do if one is familiar with those types. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. As I was getting ready for church last Sunday morning, I quickly checked my Facebook feed for any news and saw the this headline (see screen shot below): I 'shared' the article from an Australian news source, along with a comment: "Mark Driscoll needs to step away from the microphone for a long season of contemplation.". This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: You might be onto something there Sopy. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. Eye Hath Not Seen, Nor Ear Heard What He hath prepared for those who love Him?. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. The text is not prescriptive. That would be terrible. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. All allegation deserve to be investigated with openess and transparancy. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. I would not say Driscoll was a jerk. Applying this mode to spiritual abuse has gotten me thinking..and I wonder if in the future Mark will only hang around people/churches that are willing to stay on this Drama Triangle. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. i found it impossible to take advantage of people, i found that if i hurt someone even unententionally i couldnt sleep until i made it right. @ Nancy: Over the next two Sundays he will continue to remind people to vote Yes and to take a Yes sign for their yard. And the honest churches will know that most of the allegations are true and will be too ashamed to say anything. The US pastor, who has courtedcontroversy for what has been dubbed his "more-macho-than-thou" brand of Christianity, resigned from his Seattle megachurch in October after being found "guilty of pride" as well as abusive, controlling and manipulative behaviour. Christian institutions are trying to express an organic Jesus in non-organic structures. Missouri church service Saturday evening. They noted that since the pandemic began, they have taken very stringent precautions at each service, including: take temperatures at the door, fog-sanitize their auditorium, sanitize the childrens areas and common areas multiple times daily and provide masks to everyone who attends. I just do not understand this focus on hoping Christians leaders will actually and finally act like Christians when everything they have been involved with and built looks nothing like Jesus Christ. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. signed, Still Looking, first i wasnt refering to anything lindell wrote but only his intro for mark driscoll because i have never read anything he wrote and dont want to. In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. hee hee. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. Great comment Bridget. When and where did this start? And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. I am not surprised he is mobilizing his church, which packs a powerful political punch through the sheer number of members and, I believe, their commitment to vote. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. . James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? That was not my intention. And thus, I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. Personally I do not believe God would ever anoint a blatant false teacher. Certainly, Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba at the time of the communist takeover) was a very corrupt man, whose government did terrible things, as with Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, and many others. (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. I hope more will speak up in the future. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. i think you are addressing the biggest point actually. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. He was a mass murdering thug. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. How can a reasonable person look past that? But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. Again. Christian County has unfortunately seen an overwhelming rise in COVID-19 cases over the past several weeks and a subsequent increase in the number of hospitalized residents. The Lord called to him in a vision, Ananias! Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. How about when people stone you for your faith? I would hope we should higher standards than that. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. Imagine that. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right)
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